Thoughts on AA

Recovery
#1

For many, AA is the answer, but it's not for everyone.

Depending on the source, its success rates are anywhere from 5 to 12%. If you talk to many in the program, the program is perfect. With their motto of "It works if you work it" can be very bad for those it doesn't work for. It says to them that if it didn't work, it's their fault. They may then think that they're hopeless and beyond any help.

The reliance on God or a Higher Power turns me off because I'm an atheist with no spiritual beliefs at all. Surrender, to me, is Giving Up. I feel like we need to take responsibility for, and take control of our sobriety. Giving Up is how I ended up where I was.

AA is just another addiction, based upon the words and attitudes of those in it; It's just another religion.

I'm also beginning to believe the fixation on the Sobriety Date can be pretty damaging to some as well. If you slip up and have a drink, you're starting all over again. It can cause some to say "Oh well. I ruined it all. May as well keep drinking." You've still made progress, so don't give up.

I would like to think I will forget my Sobriety Date one day. I would like to think I will just say "I quit drinking back in 2022", or better yet, just "I don't drink anymore."

To those in the program: When someone says AA doesn't work for them, please don't try to convince them otherwise. If they tried it and it didn't work, encourage them to keep seeking answers wherever they may find them.

To those that AA doesn't work for: Don't blame yourself. Try something else, and don't give up on yourself. Keep seeking answers. There's going to be something that works.

I'm not trying to tear down AA; I'm just trying to say it's not the only answer.

Thanks for reading.

15 Likes
#2

You are 100% correct, it is a thing, but not the ONLY thing. I went to AA because that was where my best friend was and at the time I was desperate to get sober. It gave me the tools I needed to look inward. I am not a religious or spiritual man. I can take it or leave it. But it was the steps that truly helped me. Finally looking at the lies I told myself and the fear that was holding me back was key. I don’t think surrender is giving up. It is saying I can not win this battle without extreme trauma. I need to regroup and fight a different way. By saying “it works if you work it” that is talking about the steps. Even those are suggestions to recover not an end all be all. Did I gloss over step 2/3.. yup. Did I focus on 4/5 yup 6/7 not needed in my recovery 8/9/10 sure was. 11… meh 12 absolutely! My sponsor is a hard and fast 1-12 follower. He knows I am not, yet still works with me. Recovery be it AA, SMART, recovery darma… doesn’t matter, the key is not picking up and learning what the deep down core reasons we used are. That way, when we come to the point of surrender, it is to our own will and choice not that of addiction.

4 Likes
#4

"When someone says AA doesn't work for them, please don't try and convince them otherwise. If they tried it and it didn't work, encourage them to keep seeking answers wherever they may find them"

Lol I completely disagree with that statement and quite frankly it's wildly irresponsible to say and completely false. Of course there are many different ways to stop drinking and to each thier own. In my case I tried and completely FAILED AA and tried the alternative routes which led to a 5 years relapse that ended with me laying on a hospital bed with 3-6 months to live. Advanced fatty liver disease, heart disease, and limited kidney function. My point is that somebody who knew how to stay sober CONVINCING ME OTHERWISE saved life. I'd be dead. I tried everything else and it didn't work. I didn't want to be in AA but I also didn't want to die. Most failures in AA can be easily identified including mine. I didn't wanna go to meetings, I didn't wanna be honest, I didn't wanna do the steps, I didn't wanna look at my part in things. I'm not attacking you but you are just wrong. If you've tried everything else and alcohol has ruined your life or you're going to die you better listen to someone who is trying to convince you that you can recover. AA will work for just about everybody who is desperate enough or doesn't want to die. Thanks God for the man with 37 years of sobriety who convinced me.

4 Likes
#6

Brett, what I'm saying is don't try to convince them it's the only thing that works. Perhaps I could have worded that better.

Congrats on your sobriety, and I'm glad something finally worked for you. But, if the program isn't working for someone, they shouldn't be discouraged from seeking answers elsewhere.

I've been to meetings, and the old timers swear that this program is the only way to get sober. It's selfish, untrue, and could prevent someone from finding the answers they need.

5 Likes
#7

I say whatever keeps you sober works for you. As long you maintain it.

#8

AA is not the same for everyone that’s for sure. I understand your feelings on God or a higher power of our choosing. I was atheist when i came to the tables. But I saw happy people where I was miserable. And the feeling I had after a meeting was exactly what I needed to get me to the next one. There was clearly something going on that at least resembled a power greater than myself. And for me surrendering was taking responsibility for where I was in my life. Once I was willing to accept that there was nothing or no one else to blame for the way my life had turned out I was done fighting. I knew beyond the shadow of a doubt that my way does not work. But like the Bible the Big Book can be open to interpretation. I know that it works if you want it to. But if you don’t want it to it will not. Presently for me AA has very little to do with actually drinking and almost entirely about living the right way. In harmony with everyone and everything around me. But there is absolutely no wrong way to do it as long as you don’t drink!! Be open minded, go to meetings and do not drink. Things will change in your life!!

#9

And that's what I mean. "But if you don't want it to it will not."

Do you blame a patient that doesn't get better when treated? Yes, if someone doesn't want to quit drinking, no program will work.

Don't blame the person when AA didn't work for them. It does harm, which I'm sure you don't intend, but harm is done.

1 Like
#10

You nailed it.

#11

AA can seem very cult like but remember that all alcoholism is a form of mental illness and it is impossible to overcome on your own. I agree that sobriety dates are super annoying, particularly to people like me who have relapsed time and time again. The steps are extremely worthwhile but they are a lot of work. The one thing about AA that is that invaluable is that if you actually participate, you will never be alone in your battle.

2 Likes
#12

Another great thread with a good, open and respectful discussion. Thank you Steven for bringing it up.

1 Like
#13

Im so glad I read this. I’ve tried aa at different times in my life and idk it just doesn’t STICK. I do like hearing some of the conversations but my longest sobriety streak was done doing it by myself. Me and God. I do want to give it another go but I’m not going to beat myself up if I just end up not wanting to do it

2 Likes
#14

My main point is if you get desperate enough you better hope there is somebody around willing to convince you to fight for your life and you just better hope you're desperate enough to listen. I've lost 9 friends and family from drugs and alcohol and only 2 of the made it to 40 and they wouldn't listen to shi! Completely unwilling to try something out of thier comfort zone. They're dead now. There are many programs but in my experience when you reach the end AA is usually the one that works. This a deadly illness and we can only hope that at some point we can be willing to acknowledge that maybe everything we thought about alcoholism and AA or other programs for that matter is wrong and maybe we just weren't willing to admit we don't know shi! about being sober. Be weary of any recovery program that wants money from you. Serenity is free you just have to want it more than anything. Anybody can get and stay sober if they have the gift of desperation.

#15

This is exactly why people are turned off by AA. Those in AA will tell you there's no way you'll succeed without it, if you leave, you're screwed. AA worked for you... but you are one person, so your antedotal evidence is just that. You can preach til the cows come home that it's the answer, but there are others it doesn't/won't work for. Like the OP said, saying that it is the only answer is harmful.

1 Like
#16

Brett, I'm not trying to convince anyone to stay away from AA. I'm definitely not trying to convince anyone to give up on sobriety. I'm not even saying that everything about AA is bad.

I just don't think it's right for those in AA to tell newcomers that are struggling with the AA program that if they don't stick with AA, they will fail, they will die.

It is a program that was created nearly 90 years ago. Society is different. We also know much more about addiction and the mind now.

I'm thankful that AA exists. It brought awareness about this disease long before science and society were ready to accept it, and it has saved so many people.

However, it's wrong to fan the flames of desperation in people by telling them that they're going to die without this program. That's borderline predatory. Let them take what they need to cobble together their own sobriety.

#17

Hi Steven! Congrats on over 4 months of sobriety! This is a debate that could go on forever. We are all in search of peace and happiness. Our addictions have kept us all locked up in a cage of misery, with no chance of ever achieving the life we dreamed of. I’ve been around recovery since 1989. In my experiences, I would say that it is best to have a daily program of recovery that keeps you mindful of your addictions, and a commitment to nurturing your mental and spiritual health. What program you follow, or how you actually do this is up to each individual. Most good programs incorporate these things. One other thing that I have found important in my recovery is the fellowship of my brothers and sisters in recovery. Learning from others, and helping others has been vital to my growth. Let’s all enjoy a day full of gratitude, peace, and sobriety :pray::peace_symbol:❤‍🩹

2 Likes
#18

I’ve attend NA if you can stay clean and sober without AA or N A great when we speak it’s our own personal experience and what works for us if you want to stay then stay if you want to go go but don’t blame anyone for you not taking responsible for your decision.

1 Like
#19

Edwin, not sure if you missed the point, or were trying to illustrate my point.

My most salient points being these:
-You wouldn't blame a patient when the treatment doesn't work. Why should AA/NA be any different?
-You should never use a person's fear to keep them from seeking answers elsewhere.

I'm done with this thread, as I don't want things becoming uncivil, as Edwin's response of "blame yourself" is leaning that way.

#20

I guess the thought process would go something like this…

All recovery programs work. It’s the alcoholic/addict that don’t work the program, or stop working the program. An alcoholic/addict may not like or agree with the program, but if followed thoroughly and maintained, the programs have a high success rate.

In my program, we are taught not to shame anyone. Of course there are always a few that can’t help themselves and may speak inappropriately. However, they speak for themselves and do not express the beliefs of the programs. A little tough love is sometimes necessary. Often times we walk in with so much shame a guilt that we interpret words from others in a negative way.

2 Likes
#21

It is helping me, I am atheist but it's helping. I go to agnostic AA meetings as well as the traditional ones, and for the most part the people are the same without the religious stuff.

1 Like
#24

These recovery programs are guides and concepts to help us live a happy and productive addiction free life. The programs, and the majority of the people in it, carry a good message. Unfortunately, just like every other walk of life, there’s a loud minority that mucks up the message with their own issues. Nothing is perfect. Especially when you add the human factor to it. Bottom line is these recovery programs can and do work, but you gotta put in the work (which includes dealing with all of these different people)

5 Likes