It's true. You don't. If the god part is keeping you from getting sober, forget it, it's not true. Anyone who tells you otherwise is selling you something.
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I am only putting this out here because I keep meeting so many people, new people like me, who have been avoiding sobriety, many because of the religious aspect. I mean, I was a scummy junkie alcoholic. I could come up with 100 reasons to avoid it, but still.
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Yea man, I agree. I've been told and talked with people that the God thing can come to you as go. Like that is part of what the 12 steps do! "Having had a spiritual awakening..." I'll try to explain my theory. So I'm Agnostic BUT I find myself praying on a daily basis. At this point in my life I know that when I pray its something but I just don't know what it is. But also, I really do believe that the 12 steps, the message, the principles and the group of people you meet are ALSO the higher power. If I didn't have the people I've met in recovery, there's ZERO chance of me ever getting sober or staying sober. So I mean, it's some kinda high power/spirit/meditative connection/unknown feeling AND people to share recovery with. For me, isolation is the the biggest hurdle I have to staying sober. So I try to connect and have meaningful relationships with people in recovery.
You speak on things you don't know enough about. I don't "hate god". I don't believe in "Satan" either. I have no resentments towards God, because I don't believe in one. And saying that "everyone has a good whether it's " blah blah blah is just pandering and trying to lump everyone in the god category so you can sleep at night.
I told you, look up the the Satanic Temple. You owe it to yourself, to not look like such a fool everytime you wade into unfamiliar waters.
I have cut short our back and forth in other threads after going at it for awhilebut i'm done with this one now, unless you check out TST and come back with something of substance. I don't have the desire to argue with a foolish old child.
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I will stop telling people they don't need god to get sober when you stop telling them they do.
I am not discouraged in any way. I feel comfortable, I've made healthy real life connections so I don't need to believe that there is "something out there" that cares about me.
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Yeah that's the nature of any human, to create something when there is nothing. The human mind is simply complex. But whatever works for you as long as it's not hurting other people.
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My aunt (moms sister) is a very religious person. My mom died when I was a kid, so my only connection to her is my aunt. She can't breathe a sentence without circling back to god. It's aggravating. So I have not talked to her in years. I don't need to hear that. It's not even practical in any sense of the word.
I understand now why you are against a higher power. Must have been pretty traumatic with that mother situation. Just don’t use and everything will work out. Almost everyone in recovery has had trauma that brings us to using. Still think it’s wrong to try and tell newcomers they don’t need a higher power like you. It’s the cornerstone of almost all in recovery. Helps millions.
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While I am a devout conservative evangelical Christian, I somewhat agree with Taylor on this. Christian faiths are often used as a bludgeon instead of a hospital litter. I can almost hear Taylor's aunt, and you can correct me if I am wrong, telling people that the tragedy of that loss was "part of God's plan." That tells people that the God who is called a God of love in the Bible has planned all kinds of unspeakable evil. Quite contradictory.
The whole trope of it is all a part of God's plan is a gross misunderstanding of scripture. We are taught that he knows the plans he has for us, they are good an prosperous. We are also taught that all thing can work together for the good of them that love the lord. That doesn't mean the bad in life is his will or his plan. The first point is his plans are to prosper us. That means the things that destroy us can't be his plan. Secon is that all things can be used by him. That means even our own dumb plans can bea
used by him to put us where we need to be; that doesn't mean that the bad in life was his plan, it means he can still use it to create something good if we let it. For example the founder of loosid is in recovery. God didn't want him to go through addiction but God used it to inspire him to create Loosid.
We as Christians are told to be wise as serpents and harmless as doves. The same should go for us in recovery. We should encourage newcomers to find some wisdom they can look to, and inspire them to search. Not tell them you gotta find God to get there. I find most people who are openly searching will find a higher power with time.
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I mean for me my son was the main reason I got sober. The world’s big enough for him or alcohol but not both. Wasn’t a difficult choice once I realized that.
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I appreciate this discussion, and support all of you. If one is truly humble, how can they proclaim to really “know” anything? Believe as you wish (faith), and allow others to do the same. Love and tolerance 
❤‍🩹
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I am not "against" a higher power. I'm FOR whatever helps you not be scumbag When I tell people they don't need a higher power, I mean it in the sense that most people do, god. That's why I said "god" in my post title. You fellas all have god in your life. It's working for you that way. But there are a lot of drunk addicts out here avoiding programs because of the religious aspects. I have realized that it isn't just me who felt that way. So I want to be out here helping THOSE people out. The religious ones are well represented here and everywhere. I'm just looking out for them. But, I don't relegate my encouragement to the unbelievers. I'm down for everyone trying to live a better life, because your actions affect everyone around you. I have lived a rough life, some of it was my own doing, a lot of it wasn't.
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I agree religion is a big part of AA. Why I’m pretty much an NA person. Yet the steps are all about finding something greater than oneself. Anything. Sadly, most who come to 12 step programs have had a bad experience with that God concept in the past. Many do the blame game. My philosophy is that all religions are wrong. Yet each has a little right. Get all those little rights together and you’d have the true religion. To me, God is pretty much awol in this world today. Yet, can’t be wrong for trying anything to find him. I prefer the easy route to recovery which is letting him rule. Don’t believe in free will. Only his. My will gets me in trouble. I just take offense to folk trying to steer those starting out away from the concept of having a power greater than themselves to latch onto. It makes for an easier path to staying sober not feeling alone. If you like that alone feeling, and it’s working, fine. Not for me to judge. To each their own.
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I don't feel alone. I feel the other way, of thinking there is something "out there" looking out for me is a placebo. It's just not how I want to live. It's been proven (to me) over and over again that it's a safety line that just isn't there. It's more practical (to me) to just put in a bunch of hard work to get where I need to be. Something "bigger than myself" to me is not a "higher power" . To me something bigger than myself is my community. And I'm part of many communities. This app for instance is one of them. My job is another, and so on. So by that logic, I am a part of a community. I do my part in each community, which is bigger than myself. If I don't do my part, which could be anything, throwing away my own garbage, not pi$$ing on the toilet, cleaning out the microwave after I use it, encouraging someone to go to a meeting and not give up, then I am acting like a scumbag and if everyone ignored those common courtesies then the machine fails. When I look at things that way it makes sense to me. That is about as close as I can get to a higher power. I feel like it's a righteous endeavor.
Thank you for posting this.
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You're welcome!
And apparently the Christian god is still ignoring suffering children. More of those mysterious ways in his "plan".
You don’t need to believe in anything to get sober but to stay sober you at least need to believe in sobriety. If you believe in life, than you believe in some form of god. It doesn’t have to have any religion and it definitely doesn’t have human feelings but like gravity it has natural laws that it operates under.
The word “god” causes a lot of confusion, misunderstanding, and misinterpretation. I prefer to use the word “higher power”. Which simply means to me that I’m not god, I have little to no power over people, places, and things, I can only control my actions, thought, and behaviors…and that there are universal powers that are much more powerful than me. Plus, I like to think that these powers are good and necessary for our existence. It is people acting on self will that are to blame for our problems. Rambling on here, but I agree with your post.
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